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Mikko Ellila – English translation of article and charges plus my criticisms of Mikko while still defending his right to free speech

Below, is an Englishtranslation by Aapo Puhakkaof the article which Mikko Ellila wrote (I’ve only included the text and have left out the accompanyingpictures from his original article) and which the Finnish authorities are investigating him about.

Also, there’s a translation of the charges being made against Mikko.

I got both these texts from Laiva On Taynnavia a link from Thoughts on Freedom, The Official Blog of the Australian Libertarian Society.

Both of these are confirmed as being genuine by Mikko Ellila himself on his blog.

But first, let me state or remind the reader that when Mikko originally wrote to me he said

I am writing to you because I received a letter from the municipalpolice department saying they want to interrogate me because of theanti-Muslim, pro-Israeli, pro-European, pro-American posts in myblog.

When you read the translation of the charges and of Mikko’sarticle,you’ll see that this is not in fact the case.

However, Mikko has clarified the misunderstanding as follows …

… I could not know this [what the specific charges referred to exactly] before Friday evening (the interrogation is on Monday) because he [Mikko Puumalainen, Ombudsman for Minorities of Finland]REPEATEDLY refused to specify his allegations and to email me the relevant material that he had sent to the police.

I was able to obtain the material from him only after I notified him that I could sue him for failing to send me the relevant material because the POLICE had explicitly asked me to comment on his allegations in written form, which I obviously could not do as long as I had not even SEEN the allegations in the first place. Puumalainen undoubtedly committed a CRIME by acting like this.

My opinion of Mikko Ellila’s article

Now that I’ve had a chance to read it in English – and assuming the translation is reasonablyaccurate – my opinion ofhis articleis that it is poorly reasoned and contains factual errors.

Furthermore, it seems toinclude a number ofracist notions.

As Ayn Rand defined and discussed racism:

It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man’s genetic lineage — the notion that a man’s intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry.

Mikko does this not, as far as I can discern, on the basis of outright blind prejudice. He refers to various statistics and historic facts regarding “whites”, “blacks”, “Asians”, and “Arabs/Muslims”.

But these statistics and historic facts are, in my view, grossly incomplete and leave out a great deal.

Mikkocredits “whites”, among other things, for bringing the world “European culture and modern western society” and he claims, among other things, that “blacks” have a lower intelligence and are innately more aggressive and prone to criminal actionsthan whites.

So, while I maintain that Finland’s Blasphemy Laws are disgracefuland should be repealed, and that Mikko Ellila is being unjustly persecuted, I challenge him, or anyone who agrees with the arguments of his article to explain the following …

… WHITES …

Adolf_Hitler_Time_Magazine_Man_of_the_Year_1938
Adolf Hitler
Time Magazine’s Man of the Year 1938 1939
Responsible for at least 40,000,000 deaths
Race: White European

 

1939-1942-Joseph-Stalin-Time-Magazine-Man-of-the-Year
Joseph Stalin
Time Magazine’s Man of the Year 1939 and 1942
Responsible for at least 10,000,000 deaths
Race: White European

 

Vladimir-Ilyich-Lenin
Vladimir Lenin
Responsible for how many deaths?
Race: White European

Of course there are many more. And we could also throw in various “White European” writers and philosophers who paved the way for brutality.

… BLACKS …

 

436px-Clarence_Thomas_official_SCOTUS_portrait
Justice Clarence Thomas, Supreme Court, USA
Race: Black American

 

Thomas-Sowell
Thomas Sowell
Race: Black American

 

ayaan-hirsi-ali
Aayan Hirsi Ali
Race: Black Somali

 

[English translation from Finnish of charges against Mikko Ellila … ]

19.2.2007
425/65/2007TM

Ombudsman for Minorities

National Bureau of Investigation

PL 285
01301
VANTAA
Preliminary investigation, ethnic agitation

1. The jurisdiction of the Ombudsman
The duties of Ombudsman include prevention of ethnic discrimination, promotion of good ethnic relations, advancing the status and legal protection of ethnic minorities and foreigners in society as well as supervising compliance with the prohibition of ethnic discrimination (Law regarding Ombudsman for Minorities and National Discrimination Tribunal 1 , 660/2001).

2. Preliminary investigation
We thereby request National Bureau of Investigation to investigate whether an article “Society consists of People” found from http://mikkoellila.thinkertothinker.com fulfills the characteristics of a crime named Ethnic agitation. In addition, we ask you to initiate actions so that the article in consideration can be removed from the internet. Parts of the article attached here.

3. General issues regarding criminal law, chapter 11, 8
Freedom of expression has been secured by Finnish constitution (731/1999) 12. Freedom of expression consists of – according to the law in question – right to express, disseminate and receive information, opinions and other communications without prior prevention by anyone. Penal Code of Finland, (39/1889) chapter 11, 8 … criminalizes Ethnic agitation. The chapter in question restricts the freedom of speech. It is not possible to justify dissemination or distribution of racist statements or other information by appealing to freedom of speech.

Penal Code chapter 11, 8criminalizes dissemination of statements that where a certain race, a national, ethnic or religious group or a comparable group is threatened, defamed or insulted. It is customary to classify the characteristics of the chapter in the following manner:

Statement or other information. A statement or other information mentioned in the chapter can be given by verbally, in writing, by illustration or by gestures. It is essential that the statement or other information include threats, defamation or insults described by the penal code chapter.

Dissemination or distribution. In order for the characteristics (of the chapter) to be realized, the target of the statement must be an open group of people. According to the legal praxis, dissemination or distribution described by the chapter can be done via Internet.

Threatening, defamation or insulting. Threatening means e.g. threat by violence or threat by theft. The characteristics of defamation and insulting are comparable to offence against personal reputation (described in penal code Chapter 24 section 9). Defamation is e.g. spreading false information about ethnic groups being guilty of crimes or similar actions. Insults may contain truthful statements that have a purpose of offending. It is typical that insulting statements are not truthful. If this is the case, the lack of truth can be used as evidence of intentionality and it can emphasize the “intent for agitation”. Misleading statements, for example gross exaggeration, can be considered as defamation.

National, racial, ethnic or other population group. The list is not conclusive, because it includes term “other population group”.

Requirement for intent. The characteristics of the crime are fullfilled whether the agitation pursued by the suspect is successful or not. If the suspect has considered it possible for the agitation to succeed or he/she has had an indifferent attitude towards the agitation, act may be considered intentional.

4. Arguments for preliminary investigation
Article introduces defaming statements of different groups as facts. Text states as a so-called fact that: “Africans think that robberies, rapes, nepotism, corruption, clan wars, superstition and murders committed on a spur on moment are normal way of things. If Africans form a majority group in some country outside Africa, this country is transformed into Africa.” Text also introduces racist and defamative defamatory statements and racist thoughts in a textbook-style.

Certain groups are also threatened defamed. Article provides wrongful untruthful statements as facts and conclusions are made using these wrongful untruthful statements. Textbook-style is emphasised by using pictures. Message of the article is that whites are more intelligent than blacks. For instance, it is stated that “a population consisting of 500 million white people is more intelligent than population consisting of 500 million whites plus 100 million blacks”.

Writer is trying to make his statements so that they would look like scientific facts. For instance, writer refers to causality. An example: “Bringing negroes to Europe is bound to lower the average intelligence level because negroes have a lower median-IQ than whites. There is a positive correlation between intelligence and the standard of living.” In the concluding phase, the article describes blacks as dangerous, because – according to the writer – they often commit crimes and they are being parasitic, because – also according to the writer – they are unemployed and are “being parasites living off with the money of the European taxpayers.” Conclusion according to the writer: “When more negroes are brought to Europe, criminal activity shall rise”. Writer provides his solution to the problem in the last sentence: “if all those non-whites who currently live in Europe would move back to their originating countries, crime would be reduced by tens of percentages.”

Statements provided in the article are insulting and they also defame certain groups. Statements are greatly exaggerating, whole groups are described as stupid, criminal – meaning dangerous – and parasitic. It is obvious that writer wants to induce the reader with the same kind of loathing and contempt against a certain group that he himself feels (compare to Mika Illman: Hate against a human group, publication of a Finnish Bar Association, A-class N:o 262, s. 267-8).

Text compares certain ethnic groups to animals. According to Illman (page 269), statements like this belong to the core of penal code, chapter 11 8 and without doubt fulfill the characteristics of a crime. This is a question about despising the humanity of certain groups and also about describing certain groups being of lesser value. Illman (page 269) has made a remark that e.g. describing refugees as parasites fullfills the characteristics of a crime described in penal code, chapter 11 8.

It is also necessary to take into consideration that text constantly introduces the word “negro”. According to legal praxis, referring to individuals using this word is considered an offence against individual’s personal reputation. Use of this word demonstrates that there is intent to defame and it also aggravates the statements that have been made.

It is the viewpoint of the Ombudsman – while observing all issues as a whole– that disseminating this article clearly fullfills the characteristics described in penal code, chapter 11 8 .

5. Receiving information about preliminary investigation
We thereby request to determinate the approximate length of the preliminary investigation. Also, when the time is due, we request for information about the results of the preliminary investigation.

Ombudsman for Minorities Mikko Puumalainen

Senior inspector Yrsa Korkman
===========================

[English translation from Finnish of problem article by Mikko Elilla…]

Society Consists of People
By Mikko Elilla

In the discussion of immigration and multiculturalism many people seem to forget, that every society and culture is created and upheld by certain kind of people.

European culture and modern western society is created by white people.

One could see in Africa societies and cultures created by black people, if there were no railroads, airplanes, streets with asphalt, stone houses, electricity, telephone, television, etc.

People of Middle-East have created culture of desert-living tribes, that is so called islamic culture.

People of East-Asia, mostly Japanese and Chinese, created in their times an society, where standard of living and technical ability was centuries higher than in Europe.

Collectivistic, authoric way of thinking, typical for Asians, lead however to stagnation, because of which for example America and Africa were conquered by Europeans, not by Japanese or Chinese.

Rationalism and individualism is typical for European way of thinking and a necessary result of these is support of private property and free market-economy. For this reason industrial revolution happened in Europe and not in Asia.

Asians can live in a European society, because they have no problems to live by its rules. In their own societies Asians don’t want to implement values of European enlightenment philosophy, because they really see no use for them.

Asians think, that for example freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association and gathering and free elections are unnecessary nonsense. Idolatry of leaders as absolutist auctorities, support of official ideology of state without critic and persecution of dissidents are normal, self-evident and necessary things for Asian people.

Robberies, rapes, nepotism, corruption, clan-warfare, superstition and murders committed by momentary impulse are normal things for African people. If Africans form majority in some country outside of Africa, this country transforms to Africa. This has happened for example in Haiti, where voodoo-culture and society torn by bolshevistic anarchy strangely reminds us of African culture and society.

In the USA and Canada Negroes behave in somewhat acceptable way only, when they are clearly in minority. Surrounding white society, on the other hand with machinery of violence (police, prisons, armed self-defence, KKK-style vigilantes), on the other hand by social and cultural pressure, forces Negroes to adapt to western culture.

White Americans are of course Europeans, so society dominated by them is a European society in America.

Correspondingly black Americans are Africans living in America, so areas dominated by them are African islands in the sea of European white society.

Areas with negro-majority of course would differ more of white areas, if they were independent city-states. Because they belong to the United States, there is the same law in force than in other places in the United States as well. It is, as if the surrounding white society would occupy these negro-enclaves by upkeeping at least some what the laws of white people also within negro-ghettoes. Negroes themselves wouldn’t have created those laws and they wouldn’t try to upkeep them.

Negroes obey laws regulated by white society only, when they are concretedly upkept with harsh discipline. If discipline softens, Negroes african biological character of people is manifested in their behaviour.

Even a lion can obey man in circus, when it is kept in hard discipline by whip. If man stops upkeeping hard discipline with lion, lion starts jumping on mans face.

Biology is a destiny. Living creatures can’t do anything for their biology. Every opposition of sociology and biology, for example feminism, is based on attempt to refute mans character as a biological being.

Human is however animal, homo sapiens. Man hasn’t been created as a picture of any god. There is no gods and nobody has created human.

Human is biological matter modified by genes, which obey certain biological rules. Like a man needs certain kind of food to stay alive, there are certain rules related to aggressivity, sexuality and intelligence in mans actions.

An army created by 100 000 men is stronger than army created by 100 000 women, ceteris paribus. Male population of Finland does more rapes than female population of Finland. Intelligence level of population of 500 million white people is higher than in population of 500 million whites and 100 million Negroes.

Bringing Negroes to Europe lowers the mean intelligence level of European population, because Negroes have lower median-IQ than whites. There is a positive correlation between intelligence and standard of living. Causality goes in both directions: On the one hand increase in standard of living increases intelligence level by decreasing for example brain-damages caused by malnutrition in population, on the other hand more intelligent population can create higher standard of living for them. When the mean intelligence level decreases, the standard of living of the country decreases. Stupid people can’t upkeep high standard of living, because standard of living is the same as the real value of sum of all production of items and services per capita; stupid people can upkeep as valuable total production of commodities as intelligent people, so a more stupid society has a lower standard of living. So bringing Negroes to Europe would lower the standard of living in Europe, even if Negroes wouldn’t be social bums living on taxpayers money.

In addition to this Negroes nowadays are mostly unemployed or other parasites living on European taxpayers money. When more bums living on taxpayers money come to Europe, there is less tax money. The more Negroes come to Europe, the less there can be afforded to public health care, education, pensions, childcare, etc. in Europe.

Negroes commit more crimes than white people. When more Negroes are brought to Europe, crime increases. This is not any picture of future, but a realised scenario. In Finland immigrants do more then over 20 times more rapes per capita than Finnish people. The more there is immigrants from Africa and Middle-East in Europe, the more there is crime in Europe. If all non-white people nowadays living in Europe would move back to their countries of origin, crime rate would decrease several tens of percents in Europe.

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27 Comments

  1. He plainly broke the law of his country. I don’t think that such a law is necessary or desirable though. He even managed to insult me. In the USA the KKK doesn’t determine anything.
    He used the picture of Condalisa Rice to illustrate his point. I think that he owes her an apology. Also he probably owes a lot of other people apologies. But other than apologies or jail time I would like to send him to a training course in human relations. He just doesn’t seem to get the fact that people are not groups but are in fact individuals.
    He is definitely a collectivist. I don’t like people to be locked up for what they say but this one is either very young or very racist. I don’t know if he would learn anything in jail. If he didn’t join a jailhouse gang he might.
    I still can’t judge him well though. Is Finland a socialist country. What education do they give their kids.
    My best advise for him would be “When you get out of jail find a new country to live in. Learning about strangers would improve your education.”
    Yours

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  2. Well said PRODOS, and very much my position too.

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  3. “But first, let me state or remind the reader that when Mikko originally wrote to me he said

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  4. # Walter Haxton Says:

    May 7th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

    “He plainly broke the law of his country.”

    Not true at all.

    “I don

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  5. Dear Prodos,

    I am extremely glad to know you, (now quite a while) and to know how much you are doing to promote Objectivism.

    I agree with one of your writers on Mikko Elilla, too. He said it would be good (not a direct quote) to send Elilla to get some education on race relations. I would also include that he needs to take a class on Objectivism.

    A toast to you, Prodos,
    Mary Lou

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  6. Dear Mikko,
    On a personal note. I am glad that you did respond to me. I am looking forward to a lively discussion.
    Yours Walter Haxton

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  7. The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa.
    Foot Note: http://www.news-medical.net/?id=9530
    I had no idea that the difference was that great. When you talk about sensitive subjects like this one Foot Notes might keep you out of trouble.
    Recently the head of Harvard University in the USA was fired because he said that there were more Men in the top levels of academia. He was correct. Genetically men are more diverse than women because recessive genes on their X chromosomes can express themselves. This is because they are not canceled out by dominate genes on the other chromosome which would be another X in a woman but instead is the shorter Y chromosome.
    Instead of DOING A LITTLE RESEARCH he went around APOLOGIZING. If he had come up with some references he would probably still have his job.
    If he had gone around ARGUING HIS POINT for the sake of argument. Hay people, I am right and you are wrong. Those women would have chased him away much faster.
    Good luck Mikko with your problem. Walter Haxton 9.01 GMT-5

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  8. There are everal important issues involved in this case. I’ll blog about them when I have enough time to do so.

    But at the moment I’ll deal with only a little bit.

    Prodos and I are not at all pleased that one of our bloggers has written racist material on his ThinkerToThinker blog. If it were not for the legal action against Mikko Ellil

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  9. “Prodos and I are not at all pleased that one of our bloggers has written racist material on his ThinkerToThinker blog. If it were not for the legal action against Mikko Ellil

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  10. I have to disagree with a major premise of Mikkos’. He thinks that intelligence is the determining factor in the wealth of a population. If that were true North Koreans (average IQ 109) would be much richer than Black Americans (average IQ 85). That is simply untrue.
    I think that a country where people are free to act anyway they see fit as long as it is not at the expense of their neighbors will always be richer that a society where everybody has to ask permission to do things.
    Intelligence can always be neutralized by force.
    Capitalism is not an ism at all. There is no big capitalist plan for society. Socialism always has a plan. Trial and error always works better.
    Freedom with no plan in a nation full of morons will produce more wealth that a nation of geniuses with lots of plans telling them how to think and act.
    One mans opinion, Walter Haxton

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  11. Refraining for the moment from commenting on the offending post, Ellila makes an interesting observation contrasting his abundant posts criticizing Islam with the singularity of the offending post yet the one instance gets the attention.

    I suspect that this is an astute tactic by Muslims that he has offended to silence him by exploiting a separate weakness without a public debate about the merits of his criticism of Islam.

    This recently occurred with a speech by Dr. John Lewis sponsored by the GMU Objectivist Club. Muslims offended by a speaker advocating victory in the war had the event cancelled by citing the lapse in the club’s registration. Two other club events, not criticized by Muslim activists, were unaffected by the missing paperwork and were held as scheduled.

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  12. Hello, Mikko.

    I am presently too pressed for time to properly answer your reply to my post above. But I want you to know that I will answer you fully, and that this…

    “The mere mention of the results of scientific research, such as professor Tatu Vanhanen

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  13. Walter Haxton Says:
    “I have to disagree with a major premise of Mikkos

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  14. Dear Mikko, If I can improve a post I go back ,edit it and repost it. Then I delete the old post.
    I consider my posts to be my property.
    I say this because I like some of your explanations of what you were attempting to say. I know that it might create new controversy with the police. In the end I think that it would improve your case if they realized that the posts aren’t the last word but a work in progress.
    One of the defining characteristics of a racist is his inflexibility. If you keep refining your post they will have to explain why they aren’t using a correct definition of racism.
    I contend that there never was a racist that could change his message. They are frozen in their ideas.
    Well it’s an idea to ponder. I am trying to help. I never think it is profitable to assume the worst of people. That tends to make them angry. If you assume the best (You can do that because you don’t really know what their motives are.) you improve your position.
    Good Luck, Walter Haxton

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  15. http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/
    I just edited Mikkos web article so I could put it on my webpage. I think I am going to delete it though. The link I have posted above has the real story of man.
    He is just plain wrong about so many things. He has a lot of proving to do if he is going to prove that he is not racist. He comments on cultures and blames what ever is wrong with them on race.
    We have to support his right to speak if we are to be able to continue to speak. Finland wouldn’t have thought of passing that law if it weren’t for people like him.
    We can live with his ideas as long as we are allowed to continue to speak and refute them. The real danger from that law is that if people who think like him aren’t allowed to speak the evil of their ideas will be passed on and new Hitlers, Stalins, Maos and Pol Pots will gain power and start their Genocides before we can counter them.
    The right to life and the freedom to speak can’t be separated.

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  16. Mikko, Why do you use Homo Erectus as an example of negro people. They are Homo Sapiens.
    Not only do we not know that Homo Erectus was black it was not even human. You might as well compare a man to an elephant. Your translator got some word obliviously wrong.
    So I fixed them. I did not change your ideas. I put this up because the link on the government site is bad. They want to accuse you of something but are such sissy’s that they won’t show it. http://reasonrules.thinkertothinker.com/bloging/

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  17. Walter Haxton Says:
    “Mikko, Why do you use Homo Erectus as an example of negro people.”

    I don’t.

    “They are Homo Sapiens.”

    Of course.

    “Not only do we not know that Homo Erectus was black it was not even human.”

    Obviously not in the normal sense of the word human.

    Why you’re talking about Homo Erectus is totally beyond me. There is absolutely no reference to Homo Erectus in my blog post.

    “Your translator got some word obliviously wrong. So I fixed them. I did not change your ideas.”

    Are you saying you have you posted an edited version of my post somewhere?!

    “I put this up because the link on the government site is bad.”

    Which link?! Which site?!

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  18. (I) The bad link is on this page. Under this sub title.
    2. Preliminary investigation. Your blogs address.
    (II) HERE: http://reasonrules.thinkertothinker.com/bloging/
    (III) Beyond me too. I don’t know why I made that mistake. It is Homo Africanus, It comes up when I hover the mouse pointer over the picture of The Nuba http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/nuba.html
    (IV)I resized the pictures. They were interfering with the message. To much scrolling needed. Corrected the spelling and the word order in a couple of places.
    (V) The English translation I got was poor. I was not trying to rewrite your article.
    (VI) Please make a post there telling me what changes you want to make to the post and I will make the changes and delete your instructions. They don’t need to be made public. We can use our blogs like e-mail this way.

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  19. This is an old discussion, I know, but I’d like to state what I see as the fundamental problem issue regarding Mikko’s post, and whether (and on what grounds) it is racist, since he claims he’s not.

    He tries to explain the differences in culture by their correlation with race (genetic background). That is, he proposes and advocates race as the essential causal factor in those differences – and I mean THE causal factor: the one that singly explains the greatest amount of that difference. The fact that various (sometimes) relevant traits of individuals ARE affected by biology is not at issue; no one denies humans are biological. But is that THE most important thing about people that contributes to differences in culture, productivity, creativity, civilization, and prosperity? I agree with Sydney Kendall and say “no.”

    And even if Mikko didn’t intend to cite race as THE most important factor, but simply A factor, I think he is still at fault. I think it is the responsibility of a writer to identify what he is and isn’t trying to say. If Mikko doesn’t think race is the most important causal difference between cultures and people, it is his job to say so in a post like that. Otherwise, given the content, flow and many points of his post, it is a reasonable inference by a reader to think that Mikko does think race is the most important factor. Otherwise, in the absence of any disclaimer or context-setting statement, why would he write it?

    Back to topic: I think that the existence and (legally) free exercise of free will is a better explanation, and deeper fundamental fact, underlying differences between culture.

    In my view, Mikko may be simply erring in not identifying a more accurate cause(s) of the basic observation of differences in cultures and people. If, however, he honestly considers the color of a person’s skin, or other genetically determined, non-essential aspects of being human, to be more (causally) responsible for the myriad differences in culture, than people’s power to think and choose, then he is racist (by Rand’s discussion of the term, and my own view of it) whether he acknowledges it or not.

    I hope he is simply intellectually mistaken, and this whole episode (apart from the dispicable legal action against him) can be an opportunity to learn more about what’s important about people in which contexts.

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  20. Mikko is a racist – Period.

    IQ testing contains a component that is based on general knowledge & math testing, which you would only have if your where educated in a “white’ fashion.

    Anyone with basic psychology education would know this, or anybody who has actually sat an IQ exam would too. Which I have done both of and the test turned up and IQ 154 with objective reasoning in the high 98 percentile of the population, and I am black.

    I’m so sick of bigots finding fudge data to affirm their pre-conceived notions of racism. So called intelligent white people spouting off faulty research about the capabilities of blacks.

    In America you get whites crying about a so called “white holocaust” and claiming black are killing whites whole sale. Yet 87% of whites where actually killed by other whites, and whites have statistically killed their partners, family members and children nearly 15% more than blacks. Not only this but 75% of work place murders where by whites, and whites have also committed more sexual assault murders than blacks..You don’t see these stats been reported do you?.

    If your mind was enslaved everyday with just trying to earn the same level of comfort afforded whites, how much time would have for mental exercise such as maths, trivia, literature etc. Your not looking at the historical mistreatment perpetrated against Africans, as a system that limits most from attaining even basic education. And that many blacks even those in America have had just one generation to attain equal education opportunities.

    Your just another bigot hiding behind the facade of been a “serious” researcher, just posting the “facts”. And just proving how statistics don’t accurately reflect soci-economic and political rationals for the end results.

    Save you crap for the members of KKK who aren’t smart enough to question, or have any deductive reasoning skills to see through how thin it is.

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  21. Your years are off – Hitler was 1938, and wasn’t on the cover for that issue, and 1939 and 1942 was Stalin. 1943 was George Marshall. http://www.time.com/time/2007/poy/

    And anyway, they make the man of the year because they’re the biggest newsmaker, not because they’re the best person.

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  22. G’day Andrew.

    Thanks. I think you’re right.

    I’ll double-check all that, and if necessary, correct the dates in the article.

    Merry Christmas,

    PRODOS

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  23. Dates and links for Time’s Man of the Year for Stalin and Hitler changed!

    Thanks Andrew.

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